Bill Messner-Loebs: A Career Retrospective (Part I)
By Darren Schroeder
Darren Schroeder: What is your full name?
Bill Messner-Loebs: William Messner-Loebs I was William
Loebs, but my wife and I took each other's names when we were
married.
DS: Age?
BML: 51 Geez, I'm almost old enough not to be trusted
twice!
DS: Favorite web site?
BML: Not counting the Silver Bullet site, which is of
course my absolute favorite of all time, bar-none, pinkie-swear,
I think the one I most enjoy is the Fiasco Web Site where Don
Simpson posts a new Megaton Man strip every week.
DS: Were comics a big part of your childhood or did you
discover them at a later stage?
BML: Both. In the mid-fifties I read all the goofy DC
titles and I even remember when The Fly came out. I
remember the ads for The Flash #1. I sent in a letter to
save Green Lantern after his initial run in Showcase. He
sent me a postcard to thank me. I was there for FF#1 and the
first Amazing Adventures with Spiderman. I still have the
wedding of Sue Storm and Reed Richards. I also read the comic
adaptations of X, the Man with X-Ray Eyes and Atlantis,
the Lost Continent, and even Dr. No. I never have seen
the film of XTMWXRE, but I remember every panel of the
comic. It was chilling.
But once the Marvel Universe started doing lengthy continued
stories it became obvious that Michigan comic distribution was
not what it should be. One month I decided to catch up on the FF
and discovered that Medusa (!!?!) was the fourth member.
Then Johnny Storm and a big Amerind suddenly appeared riding on
the back of a gigantic telepathic bulldog. It was obvious I would
never figure out what was going on. Then, after college, I was
doing research for an article on the "new comics" and bought the
drug issue of GL/GA, and the Harvey Spirit collection among
others. A bit later Swamp Thing began along with Miller's
Daredevil, and I was hooked again.
DS: Looking back at the books you used to read back in the
mid-fifties, what's the biggest difference for you between comics
then and the comics of today?
BML: Well, in the mid-fifties they were all Superman and
Batman related, and Uncle Scrooge. That's what there were. They
were mostly short, plot intensive and surreal, revolving around
imaginary stories, death by Kryptonite, super-animals and history
NOT changing. Not to mention being attacked by your own
super-collections.
DS: Was art an important part of your education?
BML: In grade school and junior high I loved art. I
illustrated comic strip adventures. But in college, abstract
expressionism was all that was being taught, just as the English
courses specialized in poetry. Besides, by that time I was being
drawn to the History department.
DS: What materials and equipment do you use when drawing
your comics?
BML: When I draw my own, I use a lead holder with
non-photo blue lead. I tighten up using a #2 charged with dilute
Dr Martins Sky Blue. Then I ink with a schaffer fountain pen,
then weight the lines with a brush pen, or a sable brush with
black magic ink. The lettering is done with CorelDRAW 3, laser
printed onto gummed paper, and then I scan a reduced copy of the
art into PaintShop Pro where I add the tones, panel borders and
solid black areas.
DS: Who do you see as the target audience for your
work?
BML: My first audience is me. My larger audience is, well,
people who like experimental comics. Experimental in the larger
sense, because I know that I can't write to a formula very well.
I'm always trying something new and that's where I get my juice;
I can't just coast. Whether I'm writing super-heroes or something
else, I love to find the edges, and expand them. So my audience
has to be people who enjoy that process. I've been approached by
fans of every age and sex, by fans of every nationality and race;
I don't think my audience is easily differentiated from the herd.
And it's probably not huge, assuming there are huge comic
audiences somewhere.
DS: What work have you been doing recently?
BML: Recently? Ah there's the rub! I did a short story in
Flinch called "Dead Woman Walking," and the 4 part
Brave Old World, both for
Vertigo. I am just finishing up an issue of Superman
Adventures, and I'm beginning a series for Scrawling Eye
called Boreanna, Enigma of the Frozen North. I'm writing a
western novel called The Adventures of Johannes
Falk.
DS: What comics have you read recently? Why did you
like/dislike them?
BML: Supernatural Law-Wolff and Byrd I love the
sheer fun of this thing, the lightness and puns, and in-jokes and
the thousand different ways changes are rung in on the legal and
social issues involved. It's also nice to see popular fiction
where the constitution is respected and lawyers are seen as human
and not demonized.
I also suspect that Batton Lash does a better job of playing fair
with the law than say David Kelley does on the Practice.
The Ballad of Utopia Yes, the artwork is very influenced
by Frazetta, but for once the story lives up to the art. I know a
little about the 1880's and this is as close to accurate as I've
seen in any comic (or movie, for that matter!). And it feels hot
and gritty, and yet it likes its funky characters, and its grim
little secrets. There's a sense of hidden fun to it all.
The League of Extraordinary Gentleman Wow. Why wouldn't I
love this? Alan Moore. Alan Quartermain. And a selection of the
weirdest Victorian Heroes. It took me a bit to warm up to the art
style, which seemed flat and unexpressive initially, but it
either improved, or I did.
DS: If a film was made of your life, who should play
you?
BML: John Goodman.
DS: What is it about the comic medium that attracts you to
work with it?
BML: People asked me, for starters. And I like the fannish
atmosphere. I'd end up at the conventions, even if I weren't a
guest. There's something very attractive about sitting all by
yourself and creating a movie that people can roll up and put in
their pocket.
DS: What was the first comic you worked on and how did
that come about?
BML: It was Nightwitch, as I recall. It was
produced by Power Comics, a small, not very efficient criminal
enterprise in East Lansing Michigan. I was one of the
inkers.
DS: What sort of comic was Nightwitch and how did
you get the job?
BML: It was a combination of Dr. Strange and Wonder Woman,
our heroine was so powerful that nothing could stand before her,
if she was awake. So she was always being hit from behind. And
then her costume would be ripped suggestively. That was the
totality of her character. It was b&w and glued rather than
stapled.
DS: By my dating of your work I jump from
Nightwitch to Justice Machine... what's
missing?
BML: I think The Bunny of Death and the True Story of Job
from A Plus Comics, and several stories in Nucleus Comics. And
Puss and Blades in the Comico Reader.
DS: Any common themes with these?
BML: Just feeling my oats. Puss and Blades was inking over
Bill Bryan, which I just did again to better effect in the
current OZ books from Arrow.
At that point I was discovering one of the things I'm best at,
which is taking familiar themes and giving them a good strong
twist. When I first started reading "satirical" send ups of fairy
stories and other things they were invariably described as
"daring" and "innovative", when most of them were comfortable and
obvious. I resolved to at least try to be surprising. There is no
greater drug than true shock in the eyes of an audience.
DS: You had several stories appear in Cerebus. How
did that come about?
BML: The editor of Nucleus and I went to a
Relaxacon called Laffcon in London Ont. and took Nucleus 3
with us. We meet Dave and Deni there and a year later when
Cerebus expanded, Deni called.
DS: Did you think at that time that Cerebus would
still be going this many years later? The Regency hotel sequence
was going by then, so yes, I knew it was something special, and
we were in for a good long run.
DS: In 1983 your comic Journey starts being
published. This focuses on the life of an early 19th century
frontiersman. What prompted you do set a comic in this era?
BML: McAlistaire was one of several characters I would
draw in my sketchbook steadily over the years. He started out as
a version of Trashman by Spain, but set in the past instead of
the future. Mountain men always interested me, more than cowboys
or soldiers. Plus, he would be alone a lot of the time, with only
trees for background. And I pushed him back to 1810, so the
Western frontier would by in Michigan, making my research
local.
DS: During that time you were also picking up jobs such as
inking Mr. Monster and artist on some Grimjack
issues. Had Journey helped you pick up these kind of
jobs?
BML: Oh, yes. I wouldn't have met any of those guys, or
had them see my stuff, save for Journey.
DS: Journey seems to have gotten a good response
from the critics, why did you cease working on the series?
BML: Well, for one thing I was totally exhausted. At the
end I was doing Journey WarDrums, and Jonny Quest,
and the art in Wastelands, and Silverback too, I
think, all monthly. Which is why Journey became less and
less monthly.
DS: Johnny Quest was a series inspired by a 60's
cartoon show. How familiar were you with the characters and how
did you approach writing for the comic?
BML: Well, I had seen it when it first came out, and had
caught the brunt of the Hanna Barbara hype machine (it was the
first true adult, realistic cartoon ever made, etc, etc.) It
seems like those who really loved it were 12 or younger when they
first saw it. I was 17, and very judgmental 17 at that. I was
very disappointed. When Comico sent me videotapes I was appalled.
Now I was, what? 34 or something and the flaws and derivative
nature of everything were obvious. But when my friends told me
the JQ stories they remembered, they were wonderful; epic
tales of spies and adventure set in every exotic city around the
world, brimming with subtle character interaction, warm
fellowship and arcane knowledge, both scientific and spiritual.
So I set out to write the stories everyone remembered.
DS: The art team changed quite a bit before Marc Hempel
and Mark Wheatley became the regular team from #14. How closely
were you working with the artists and did the changes make things
difficult for you?
BML: It made things horrible for Diana Schutz, my editor.
My stories were done months ahead of picking the art teams, but
it was a nightmare of co-ordination for her. It was cool to be
working with and interacting with so many other artists. And
frankly, as the one thread of continuity in the book I knew it
was a great and unique position for a writer to be in. In a
medium where the artists tend to be the stars I got much wider
notice than I might have otherwise. Neil Gaiman got a similar
boost from Sandman and really made the most of it.
DS: What was DC attempting with Wasteland?
BML: Mike Gold wanted to create a modern mag of
psychological horror, that would be totally free of EC
influences. And to give his quirker friends work.
DS: Do you think it succeeded?
BML: I think it succeeded brilliantly. However, by the
time he was well enough settled into DC to start the book, even
the quirkiest of us had already found work. So John Ostrander and
Del Close were always fighting the clock and there was never time
for the sort of collaborative interaction I was hoping for.
Furthermore, because they were complex 9 page, nine panel pages
with intricate urban backgrounds, it was nearly as much work to
draw one of them as a whole issue of Journey.
DS: With the Flash you had a long run with an
established superhero. How did you get up to speed with the
back-story of the character?
BML: Well, I had grown up reading the Flash and had
enough interest in the character to keep in general touch with
what was happening. I started on issue 9 or something of the new
run and they sent me issues and scripts so I knew what Mike
Barron had been doing. Plus they xeroxed a couple key scenes from
Teen Titans to show Wally West's evolution. We were trying
something new enough that the majority of Flash's old continuity
didn't apply.
DS: Did you set out with any grand plan for the
character?
BML: I wanted to fulfill what Mike had started. He had
come up with such a unique take on the character, and yet he
seemed to be struggling. He had started writing Punisher
at the same time and was having such a good time with that book,
that he couldn't give Flash his full attention. At least
that was what he said to Mike Gold when he left. So I wanted to
play with that, in sort of the same way I wanted to play with the
Thor that Warren Ellis created. I guess I'm more of synthesizer
than a full bore creator.
I also wanted to make him DIFFERENT than Batman. All the heroes
at that time were so driven and sour, and their worlds so grim,
that it made things boring. The essence of drama is contrast and
surprise. Batman is only interesting when he's different from
everyone else.
DS: What are the key elements to a superhero?
BML: Hydrogen, oxygen, helium and a little iron-y. Sorry.
I think you should write them in just the same way you write any
other character ... which has probably kept me out of the big
time. Denny O'Neil famously (and possibly apocryphally) once
remarked, "Don't write the character, write the costume." If
Denny actually said that, thank God he's never followed it
himself. The one extra difficulty in writing super humans is the
powers.
Much of storytelling is created by the shared knowledge we have
as humans about how the world works. We know instinctively how
heavy a manhole cover
is, we know how long it takes to run across the street. By
changing drastically the relation between space and time, a
character like Flash effectively eats away at the stuff of
conventional drama. Most of the writer's time goes into inventing
reasons why he can't just solve the crises in the first page of
the book.
DS: How did DC react to your idea of outing Pied
Piper?
BML: DC, in this case my editor Brian Augustyn, was
incredibly supportive. Nobody seemed to have the key, even after
several attempts, to creating a sympathetic gay character and I
wanted to take my shot. Brian, as always, was at my back and gave
me his full support. I wanted to create a character that people
would get to know before they discovered he was gay, and I wasn't
sure I'd have 30 more issues on the book. So I looked at my
existing cast and picked the Piper. It was also a little quid pro
quo. Brian wanted the IRS story line; I wanted to deal with a gay
character. We were both pleased as punch.
DS: What was the reaction from readers at the time?
BML: Very positive. I don't remember any negative
comments.
DS: I think it was issue 54 where there was an explosion
on a passenger jet.
An air hostess is sucked outside to certain death. What you had
the Flash
do next has always stuck in my mind as the perfect piece of
superhero writing. Was this a special issue to you?
BML: In fact it's the one I give as my favorite single
issue. Too often we are given heroes who aren't afraid, or who
are curiously passive spectators to tragedy. Heroes actually need
to make things better occasionally or they aren't heroes, really.
They are puppets, strung flat and tangled by irony. And I wanted
an issue that would be complete in itself, after a string of
continued stories. And I wanted a story that would again center
on speed, something I hadn't done for a while. I was so pleased
when the notion occurred to me. I remember thinking, "This is a
real superhero plot!
Wow. I actually came up with one."
I actually wrote and sold that issue to Brian on a flight we were
taking to LA to watch the filming of the Flash TV show, so
it has a lot of meaning for me.
To Be Continued... Next Week
Bills
homepage.
A somewhat
complete but not quite correct William Messner-Loebs
bibliography
A convention sketch
A picture from
one of Bill's Comics
Jonny
Quest Comics